KeepItPrinting.com

[mmelrod]

I got a bid that spec'd an OCE Colorwave 300. The customer is asking for a 5 yr lease price with 2K sq ft per month base usage, how competitive on pricing - equipment and s/s - would I be if I bid the KC80?

[GR81]

Not even close!!
Colorwave 300 list out around $18K with everythng.
The KC80 is around $120K with everything.
The KC80 is ten times the machine of the Colorwave, but also ten times the price.
KIP must come come out with an affordable color machine in the next 6 months are they are going to get killed in the current market!!

[mmelrod]

I figured as much. Thanks for the info.

[Tinyminime]

GR81 is almost right.

The Kc80 is untouchable though! Its not ten times better .. it is at least 20 times better.

The color-wave is only equal to a scanner connected to a ink jet. There are many cheaper and better options on the market. The quality is only good when using good media and patience as quality prints take a long time.

The Kc80 gives a constant quality prints fast and cheap. We now have 5 in the field that are exceeding most of our customers expectations.

Kip have released a entry level product that has the simple color option that still will provide a cheap and fast toner print but also allow connection to any ink jet for color prints.

PS. just in-case your thinking i work for Kip, i don't. We provide to all ends of the market the best and priced right equipment available.
_________________
I used to have hair!!!

[doodad]

The other issue against the OCE is tech support. At the moment is something lees than desired. They don't seem to know thier own equiptment. Kip steps right up when there is an issue. My experience with the 2 of them is Kip is by far more well versed on thier stuff than OCE is by far.

[GR81]

Well the Colorwave 300 is far more than an inkjet with a scanner.
It is a two roll, single footprint, flat stacking (no paper curl) and most importantly, affordable option.
You can put in three Colorwaves and print faster than the KC80 and still have a smaller footprint.
Plus you can move the Colorwaves around.
I love the KC80, heck ours has never even had a paper jam.
But it is priced out of the market in our current economy.

[mmelrod]

so going forward KIP's approach remains connecting a KIP system to an inkjet HP??? Doesnt exactly help me on this opportunity since the entry level system isnt due out until Sep 2010.

I saw the entry level product...compact design, offers a lot for the size.

[james]

I seem to remember somewhere that I read that the ColorWave prints would have problems with heat. Like if you put a printed roll on your car dashboard the toner would melt to the back of another sheet.
Has anyone heard of this?

[GR81]

That is the Colorwave 600, they use the wax pellets, exscuse me, I mean toner balls.
Oce claimes they corrected this issue somewhat.

[Tinyminime]

Hello all,

Again GR81 is almost right! hahaha don't take it personal as i have had to do a lot of work on this for many people.
The OCE is a good machine but it should not be thought of as any where as good as the the KC80. You could run 10 colorwaves and still not get the cost , speed and quality to match.

Below is the real speed of the color wave , if you just compare it at the release mode color, then the Kc80 would produce up to 18 A0 prints to every one from the colorwave.[this even at its highest quality,with no concern for the coverage]

The OCE two rolls only can hold 120 meter rolls. Kc80 holds four 175 80gsm rolls.

I could go on! but if you want any more info PM me and i can send you more info.

Do not get put off with the price of the KC80! it is worth it.
I had one customer that used 3 roland machines for there point of sale work that took them three and a half days with two people to complete. With the Kc80 it is now done in less than one day and his costs have halved.

I am only posting this to pass on all the info i get nagged about daily from our sales force.

Greetings to you all!


"The relation between the output quality parameters# Print speed for all media (per A0 (E-size), not including the drying time and the processing time) (minutes' seconds")

'Grayscale'

'Check' 0'41"
'Release' Between 1' 00" and 3' 40", dependent on file content (the printer automatically optimizes between print quality and productivity
'Presentation' 3' 40"

'Color'

'Check' 1' 03"
'Release' Between 3' 05" and 6' 15", dependent on file content (the printer automatically optimizes between print quality and productivity.
'Presentation' 9' 15"
_________________
I used to have hair!!!

[GR81]

Tiny,
What color is the sky in New Zealand?

The KC80 while a great machine, is priced out to only be practical in Print Shops, staffed FM's where the color output is 50K sq. FT or greater, or government offices.
Every customer that has seen the KC80 loves it, but then laughs at the price tag.
When the economy picks up....maybe.
Right now everyone wants the low cost solution, and a small mobile footprint.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is over here, things must be a little different with the Kiwi's.

[Tinyminime]

Hey buddy,

The sky is a great shade of non polluted blue! We maybe a pimple on the bottom of the world but as some say , we bat well above our weight! Your comments are fair but i have to say maybe short sited. Yes the client needs to be be in the higher end of the market , but i imagine your market is 80 to a hundred times bigger than our market. That is a lot of prints!
Our customers are in the street poster and point of sale industries and have changed the whole market with the Kc80 machines.
On every space for street posters in Kiwi land is Kc80 prints! most of the point of sale advertising at food markets etc. is the Kc80 prints!
if you have any customers laughing at the price then you are not dealing with the right customers.

Don't give up! hahaha

Anyway if you want to visit our beautiful country, give me a heads up and i will be happy to show you good old Kiwi hospitality.

All the best to us all in this wonderful industry!
_________________
I used to have hair!!!

[GR81]

Tiny,
I'd give my right arm to come down and see you!!
You are a great sport and fun to spare with!!
Take care!

GR

[mmelrod]

That does make sense, I started this post because we had a bid opportunity (the bid was heavily spec'd towards the OCE). Moving on to a broader conversation Tiny, are you finding much competition in your deals for the street signs / POS providers? I would guess that these deals wouldn't be overly competitive and will hold a lot of GP. How about beer and liquor distributors/wholesalers, any luck there?



thanks.