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Bad to Worse
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TXReproShop
doctor


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 300

 PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Bad to Worse Reply with quote Back to top

Well it just went from bad to worse. 7000 has 420,000 square feet on it. Just did all new wires, was haveing the problem with the small line, but this morning the first print out it jammed and gave a E51-2. I cleaned the new wire, same thing. I re-placed the new wire, same thing. I check voltage at CP21 & CP22 - 0 volts.

Will the power supply board go out that soon? That is all I can trace it down to.
 
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 570

 PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Don't be to quick, those test points will likely be zero anytime you have a over current condition.

Try running the machine with the T/S unit out.
Disconnect both ends of the HV lead and check for continuity and (particularly) a short to ground.

Always pull ALL your high voltage output wires from the board, then check your board. Then replace the connectors one at a time until you get your error (which in this case would be the transfer wire, but its always good to double check)

Also, perform electrical checks by making test prints as well as using the output tests in service mode if possible. I learned this the hard way.
If you continue to get a E51-2 with the HV leads off the supply, you may have a bad board.

As for your line, without seeing it, I've got nothing.
Your welcome to email a scan of it to me, I don't know if I can help but I will if I can.

Let me know how it goes.



Scott
 
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TXReproShop
doctor


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 300

 PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

When I pull the lead for HV2 from the board, it does not jam. It prints a blank test sheet. Using a high voltage probe on the transfer power supply I am getting reading of apprx. 2KV. Not sure if that is correct or not.

What I am seeing on the jammed copy is no sign of an image for at least 6 inches and then it is there very lightly - but that is at the time of the jam and the machine stops, so it is like there is no transfer at the time the paper is reaching the T/S unit.
 
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 570

 PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Your on the right track.

I don't know if 2KV is correct, but it's close enough. Was this reading with the lead disconnected?

The jam is a result of the error. When the machine detects an error, it shuts everything down causing a jam.

The fact that you get no error with the transfer lead off tells you that the issue lies between the board and the corona wire, not the board itself.

I know you re-replaced the wire, but check it again.
Check all the wires.
Look for white crud in the plastic insulators, can they be shorting?


Running a test print with the transfer /separation corona assembly out of the machine would isolate it to the assembly or the wire between the assembly and the power supply. I have never tried this with the 7000, it may jam.


Scott
 
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KIPDOCTOR
Site Admin


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 1408
Location: Boston Area

 PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Nice job Scott. All good info and thanks for helping this guy out. I have been going crazy lately working on a new, fantastic way to save everyone here some money. Can't comment yet, still in beta testing. Suffice to say, K Mart will hate me more than they already do.

Thanks again for stepping up Scott. If you ever want to join forces, let me know.

Also, check that stupid varistor mounted on the trans sep unit. I have seen the leads get bent and then contact the machine frame and that also takes down the transfer charge.

Gotta go put the Hog back in the garage.
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 570

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Doc,

Thanks for the compliment, very much appreciated.
I am always happy to share my skills, often to the point of being annoying (just ask anyone I have trained!!)

Joining forces sounds good, I will keep that in mind!

And thank you for supplying us Kip techs with a place we can turn when we need help. You provide an invaluable resource for all Kip techs.
Kip should appreciate this forum. The better the techs are, the better the machines run, the better Kip looks. From my point of view they should be paying you wads of cash for a great big banner ad!!

And now you have me curious about this new trick you have up your sleeve, saving money is something I am always happy to do. I've got to figure out how to support two money pits called the Oce 9800.


TxReproShop,

One thing I forgot is that high voltage circuits can be tricky, they can short to ground when live even though there is no short when tested with an ohm meter. If you can reliably eliminate the transfer corona housing and transfer corona wire, you may have a bad lead wire even if it shows no direct short to ground.
I think the most likely cause is the corona wire or insulators though.


When you get this fixed do get me a scan showing the line you are getting. Image issues are the hardest to diagnose on the forum, and with an example I would be closer.

Keep us posted.




Scott
 
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Chazbo
doctor


Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 377

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I had the same issue on a 7000. In my case the issue was caused by one of the small screws holding the metal piece to the side of the transfer/detak assembly. The screws are at the very end of the metal piece and when screwed in are just below the inside surface of the plastic end blocks. The charge wire was actually shorting to the screw through a small burn hole in the plastic. I lined the end blocks with electrical tape until I could replace the blocks. I do not have my parts manual handy to give you the # or correct name of the metal piece....sorry.
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TXReproShop
doctor


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 300

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have to admit I am stumped on this one. I started working on this type equipment in the late 80's when the Xerox 2510 was considered a modern machine and then later did a lot of service on the old Shacoh 920's. This one has me though.

I started over - there is an image on the drum if I do a quick stop, so I assume all is correct with the devolper and charge end of things.

I was able to swap out the HVPS board, no change. From the lead wire off the HVPS to the other end of the transfer wire, I read continuity of 9.82ohms.

When I look close at the sheet that came out of the quick stop, there is a very, very faint image on there. For those who have worked on 9010's or 8855's it is almost like the when the developer housing is not set all the way to the drum. Could it be something like that, that I am just not catching?

Right now I have some finger nail polish drying on the transfer blocks. Like I said this one is getting me frustrated.
 
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cjwilt
doctor


Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1041

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I would also take a close look at the Separation wires. Replace them and try adjusting the T/S wires at different heights. I have had this error do to the voltage bleeding over from the separation. It never hurts to remove the end blocks and check for moisture or toner underneath. Keep us posted.
 
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TXReproShop
doctor


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 300

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Painted some "Revlon Professional Double Twist Clear Top Coat" - thanks to my wife for allowing me use that out of her massive inventory - inside the T/S blocks and all seems to be fine.

I saw/see absolutely no cracks or breaks in the blocks, but this is a lesson learned for me.

Thanks for the help.
 
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 570

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Glad to hear you got it worked out.
Sorry if I covered more of the basics than you needed.
Keep us posted on the issue with the line.




Scott
 
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TXReproShop
doctor


Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 300

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Forgot to mention, the line is gone. I figure the wire must have been having a short for sometime and that was causing it. New wires must have compounded the problem.
 
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Chazbo
doctor


Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 377

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The item I mentioned in my previous post is item # 19 ( tr corona house 2) on page 42 of 7000 parts ver 1.6. The mounting screws are pointed and can have burrs on the tip. File the tips of the screws down.
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scott
doctor


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 570

 PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

TXReproShop,

I was curious if the line had gone away, thanks for the confirmation.



Chazbo,
Thank you for the idea, mounting screws are probably the biggest problem with arcing to ground, I will remember to file them.
I have worked on copiers that arced constantly, the plastic was too thin where the mounting screw was on the T/S corona and we took to gluing them down and removing the screw when dry. I think it was the Mita DC-111, it was a long time ago.




Scott
 
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KIPDOCTOR
Site Admin


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 1408
Location: Boston Area

 PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey, I remember the Mita DC 111, how about the 152Z? MIta is where I got my start in copiers. My first copier job paid $18,500 per year in 1988. Crazy, that would just about cover the cost of running this site now. (OK, maybe not really that much)
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